What the heck is a business plan and why do you even need one? Join host Mariam Waliji as she sits down with Julie Forrester on this month's episode of Pollinating Purpose. Together they chat about why business plans don't have to be as scary as they seem, some helpful steps to start writing your very own, and what some of the common roadblocks are when building them (and how to work around said roadblocks). Plus they dive into why it's okay if your business plan isn't perfect (fun fact; it's because no business plan will ever be perfect - and that's a-okay)
This episode features Julie Forrester, manager of Impact Consulting at Pillar Nonprofit Network, as this month's guest. Tune in to learn about how to approach writing a business plan for your social enterprise, some useful tips to taking those first steps and making them feel less daunting, and what we mean when we talk about a "useful" business plan.
Resources
Music
Intro and background music written and performed by the wonderful Jessica O'Neil.
Find her as Yessica Woahneil on music-streaming platforms.
Sponsors
This podcast is made possible in-part through the generous in-kind sponsorship of Rogers TV London and financial contributions of Libro Credit Union.
42:29
SPEAKERS
Julie, Mariam
00:00
Music: Pollinating purpose a caring approach to business theme music by Jessica O'Neil
Mariam 00:22
Pollinating purpose caring approach to business, welcome everybody. If they don't give you a seat at the table, bring a folding chair, and then bring another one to set beside you, a quote by Shirley Chisholm, the first black woman elected to US Congress. Welcome to pollinating purpose a caring approach to business by pillar nonprofit network. I'm your host and ice cream aficionado, Mariam Waliji. I also act as the Social Enterprise Program Manager and Coach here at Pillar Nonprofit Network. For those of you who are new here Pollinating Purpose is a show about supporting organizations who seek to have social impact through the work that they do. Whether nonprofit for profit or grassroots organization, you'll learn key considerations to starting or growing your social purpose business. Alongside you'll get to hear from guests and subject matter experts on how to best support the work that you're doing. Today I am over the moon excited to welcome Julie Forrester as our guest today, where we'll chat about what to even is a business plan and why you might want one. So Julie Forrester is a social impact consultant who coaches community organizations, social enterprises and public institutions to deepen and sustain their impact. She specializes in conversations around strategic clarity and financial sustainability. As a graduate of Ivey Business School, with a career in nonprofit and international development. Julie's perspective combines the tools of business with the desire to do good. Julie is the manager of impact consulting a social enterprise, of Pillar Nonprofit Network that provides consulting and training related to equity and inclusion, strategic planning, business development, and nonprofit governance. And that is the official bio that I made, Julie send me. The unofficial bio is that she is a dear colleague, friend, an excellent walking partner. She is someone that I am so fortunate to get to work alongside and learn from very often. The list of things that I learned from Julie never seems to end. So I am so excited to be able to chat with her today. Hey, Julie.
Julie 02:49
Hi, Mariam. Funny running into you here.
Mariam 02:51
Oh, so funny. Thanks for joining us.
Julie 02:54
You're welcome.
Mariam 02:55
And yeah, welcome to Pollinating Purpose here at Innovation Works.
Julie 03:00
Thank you.
Mariam 03:01
Okay, so first question. You are the Manager of Impact Consulting, as you said, or I guess, as I said, a social enterprise of Pillar Nonprofit Network. So can you share a little bit about what Impact Consulting does? Yeah, absolutely.
Julie 03:19
So we talk about how Pillar is here to support the nonprofit sector, social enterprises, organizations trying to do good in the community. And so the simplest way I can talk about Impact Consulting is that we do that, but on a really deep level with organizations. So if you come to a workshop, where you meet some of our staff, and you think, well, that was great, but I need you to come and work really with my organization for a longer period of time, that one on one coaching and consulting work, we often run that through our Impact Consulting program. So that covers a lot of things. We have a lot of different expertise areas here at Pillar. But the main sort of four that we do is strategic planning. So really helping an organization just decide, you know, who are we? What are we trying to do? How are we going to do that? Ranging from? Can you come out for a weekend and help us work through some challenges to let's build, you know, your next five year strategic plan and vision? We do equity and inclusion work. So I have some amazing colleagues, who have a lot of expertise in diversity and inclusion, and how do we build a better community from that perspective. And so they'll work with organizations from diversity and inclusion audits, they'll work with them to build action plans, we deliver workshops and trainings on equity inclusion, we coach leadership teams around these topics. So obviously something that has been a growing in conversations not just in our community, but broader in society over the last couple of years.
Mariam 04:44
A quick little shout out to all of those amazing colleagues, whether from a policy perspective, encouraging systems transformation, or really considering how we can build safe and ethical spaces in programming. The team that I have the honor of working alongside is doing some really impactful, and at times really uncomfortable work. Work that is necessary to do as we consider the history and legacy of the philanthropic and impact sector. We could have a whole episode on that alone. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Julie 05:25
And then what we're here to talk about today is social enterprise. So that's most of the projects that I personally work on. So partly the ones that I like to talk about the most, but also just hopefully, really interesting to the audience listening in.
Mariam 05:40
So very quick reminder, by Pillar's definition, a social enterprise is a nonprofit, or for profit organization that seeks to have a positive social, cultural, or environmental impact through its operations, and or the sale of their products and services. The impact goals of the organization are foundational, and inform all of the decision making of the organization.
Julie 06:11
So social enterprise, we really work with organizations from early stage, hey, I have an idea, I'm looking to explore it. That could come from a large charity that has an idea that could come from an individual that has an idea, we work with a wide range of individuals and organizations, it could also be a social enterprise that's already been started that's growing, that needs some updated financials, maybe they're ready to go for a larger loan, they need some help applying getting their business plan in order. So yeah, kind of a wide range of topics, but really trying to support organizations and meet them where they're at, we really try to personalize the work that we do. We don't have a lot of, you know, here's our package, here's our tools. Let's walk you through those steps. It's really, what are you trying to achieve? Can we help you, if we're not the right people to help you? We're very open and honest about telling you that as well, trying to get you somebody else in our network that can help. So that's the benefit I would say of Impact Consulting, being part of the broader Pillar network is that if we're not the right fit, or maybe it's a yes and situation, we also have up to 600 member organizations who include coaches, consultants, nonprofit partners that we're able to connect you with as well.
Mariam 07:21
Cool. Yeah, I mean, so I have, of course, been able to work with you on a couple of consulting projects. But I also think that part of the connection between our work besides both, you know, being and social enterprise is that, you know, through running the Incubator and kind of that early stage, you know, first connections things. A little plug. The incubator refers to the Libro Social Enterprise Incubator, it's one of the social enterprise program supports offered by Pillar Nonprofit Network, and facilitated by yours truly, it is offered once a year with applications opening up in the late summer, and consists of a 10 week workshop series. During these workshops, the cohort learns about how to build and develop a business model for their social enterprise, including financial models, impact models, and stakeholder models, as well as have access to one on one coaching, connecting with subject matter experts, experience shared learning within the cohort, and so much more. Think of it as a deeper dive into a lot of the conversations we'll be talking about throughout this podcast series. It is a free program, funded by our friends over at Libro Credit Union. And it's open to anyone in the London Ontario region in the early stages of developing their social enterprise model. If you'd like to stay up to date on when those applications open up, I recommend signing up to the Pillar Nonprofit Network newsletter. Once folks get the chance to like really pilot something, and then if they really want to dive deeper, then you're kind of the folks, I send them on to you, which is great, because it means I get to work with you a lot, which is nice. Okay, so going back to business plans. I feel like both from when I first became, you know, familiar with this world, in the world of social enterprise, as well, as you know, the folks that I coach and things like that there's this very daunting understanding of what a business plan is. So, Julie, what the heck is a business plan?
Julie 09:36
That's a really good question. I'm gonna give you many answers that are going to make hopefully some sense. So I mean, essentially a business plan is whatever you want it to be.
Mariam 09:48
The world is your oyster baby.
Julie 09:51
In my estimation, a business plan certainly does not need to be a 20 page document that you hand over to you know, a business advisor and get a ton of feedback on and you know, make sure your appendices are all right, and you've sourced all of your documents. And I say that as someone who writes those on a regular basis.
Mariam 10:12
I think the longest business plan I've ever worked on was around 67 pages, including the appendices. It was a behemoth.
Julie 10:25
You may get to a point where you need something like that. And we can talk a little bit about, you know, how do you decide when you need something like that. But it could just be like the back of a napkin, jot notes, I use fun color for post it notes with all of my clients, you do, too, they're falling out of my purse at any given moment. Because that can also be a business plan, it doesn't have to be as formal, it can be really whatever speaks to you.
Mariam 10:51
A the end of the day, it is a plan, for your business.
Julie 11:04
I worked with clients, particularly who were more creative, who were like, you know, my business plan is this vision board. You know, that's where I'm starting here. It's a collage that I made. And let me explain my business to you through this visual representation. And so, to me, a business plan is a representation of what you're trying to do and what you're trying to accomplish in the world. Yes, there are pieces of that that can be helpful. So we could talk a little bit about, you know, financials and you know, marketing plans that might not show up in a visual collage, but they might there might be conversation that can be started through a visual representation, it could be you doing an audio recording to talk about here are the steps of my business, because it can be just for you to plan out what you're trying to do.
Mariam 11:47
Yeah, I think, yeah, that captures it so well. It's like a business plan is what you need it to be. And it's that, yeah, it's that it can be that formal document that you need to offer to a funder because, you know, if you're asking for a large sum of money, they will ask for something like that. But if you're starting out, it can really just be like a guiding living document that changes as your idea evolves, which I think is such an important piece as well, is that the business plan doesn't need to and often shouldn't be static.
Julie 12:19
No, I'd say it never really is. There certainly, you might have a moment in time where you create a document that you're sending to someone. And for them, it may seem static, because you know, they're giving you money, or they're partnering with you. And there's a moment in time where that happens. But that document isn't going to be useful for you if it just sits on a shelf.
Mariam 12:37
I want to pause here for a quick second. So so many folks who approached me with questions or are hoping or support around developing their business model, have a business plan. Maybe they use a template or went through a business program of some type. But they often can't really tell me what's in said business plan, or haven't looked at it in months, maybe even years. So I often ask them, What is the purpose of their business plan? To what end? Did they create it? Ideally, your business plan is something you refer back to pretty regularly, more so in the beginning, as you're testing and validating bead, even if you're years into your business, it's good practice to just check it on it every so often. And see if it's still aligned with the actual operations.
Julie 13:30
And you never look at it again, and you never change it. So if it's something that works for you, if it's something you build in, like I've seen people build out business plans in asana, like,
Mariam 13:43
okay, when she said that I fully heard a sauna, like a steam room. But Julie was referring to a work management platform. I'll link it in the show notes for you.
Julie 13:58
an online tool, where you can kind of just put in your to do's and they've built a business plan using a tool like that, something that's gonna be useful. And I always say to like every business plan is wrong. Like no business plan is ever accurate to what you're actually going to do and what you're going to accomplish. It's really about creating hypotheticals, testing out those hypotheticals and then updating the plan. So it should be constantly changing.
Mariam 14:27
This is why we call it a living document. It's always changing and shifting, adapting as you learn as you grow. And as your understanding of your stakeholder becomes more clear and defined. Yeah. And for clarity, like a business plan is never correct, because it's always based on assumptions. Yeah, yeah. It's It's not based on fact until you can actually do the thing. Yeah, I think that's such a an important thing to remember.
Julie 14:57
I don't think there's very many entrepreneurs who've looked back Three years in and thought, wow, everything I wrote about business plan is exactly how my dismisses now isn't that really helpful. If it happens, let me know. But I don't think it happens very often.
Mariam 15:10
If this has ever happened to you send us a message. I have always wanted to meet a unicorn. Yeah, we we had Jacob Damastra, from Urban Roots London. On on the last episode, and yeah, it, I was looking at our old business plan not too long ago, and I was like, this is, this is pretty different from where we are now, which is just how it goes, you know.
Julie 15:35
And I did some of the coaching on that. So I can tell you, it was not, you know, where are you right now.
Mariam 15:40
Yeah. Okay, so, you know, talking about a business plan talking about the first steps to business plan. What, like, if you're coaching someone who is in that starting out stage, you know, what do you encourage, as the first steps to starting a business plan.
Julie 15:56
Yeah, absolutely. Well, there's a couple of things. So I'll give like a pretty practical tool that I like to use. And then I'll also talk a little bit more about kind of the why you're building it out. So there's a very practical tool, it's called the Business Model Canvas. There's many versions of it.
Mariam 16:14
As Julie mentioned, there are a fair few versions of a business model canvas, if it's helpful to narrow it down. Two that I really like are the feminist Business Model Canvas, and the flourishing business model canvas. The feminist Business Model Canvas takes the core principles of a standard canvas, and really create space to think about building the values and the visions of your organization directly into your business model. And therefore, your plan. The flourishing business model canvas is the one that I most often use, it takes a very high level approach of considering how the environment and society as a whole relate to your organization, and also really facilitate some curiosity around potential negative impacts to your work alongside those positive impacts, it's an opportunity to really think outside of just directly your work. But consider how it relates to the broader ecosystem that you're working within.
Julie 17:15
So there's sort of a classic, you know, if you Google Business Model Canvas, you'll get a version that is sort of the originating version, it's literally a one page, it's got a bunch of sections on it in squares, it's like a little sort of collage. And the intention is that you pretty much point form out your business plan on one page. So rather than starting with a template, because you can go online, and you can Google business plan, and you'll get many, many templates with sections and questions, and it's 10 to 20 pages. Personally, I find that really intimidating. I think a lot of people find that very intimidating. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend for someone, that's where they start, I think it's a little like trying to write a book without a plot and your characters sort of figure it out in advance reminds me of going back to high school and trying to when they teach you how to write essay outlines, this is the essay outline of a business plan. So it's the skeleton, it's just the foundations. And it's meant to be pretty easy. In theory, you can do your first one in a few hours and just write out to the best of your ability, your assumptions about what your business might be, you know, what do you think your pricing could be? Just make a guess? Who do you think your customers are? If you already know, so you might already be a couple years into your business, you might be able to fill it out pretty easily, you might be just starting, you might have some big, you know, highlighted question marks on it. And that's okay. But it at least gives you a sense of, first off, it gives you a sense of, if there were any sections you really couldn't fill out and you had no idea. Well, it's a good place to do some more thinking, do some research, maybe test some ideas.
Mariam 18:47
The beauty of a business model canvas is that it is broken down into the sections of your organization. And yes, in the end, the sections all build upon and intersect with each other. But when you start out with the canvas, it's an opportunity to think about them piece by piece. And your business model canvas includes all of those key features you need to be aware of, before you can really fully launch and test your organization. You don't have to have all of the perfect answers. Frankly, you probably never will. Things will always be changing. But you should have some general understanding of this is who I think my target audience is. Or this is how much I think it will cost to run my business based off of the activities and resources needed.
Julie 19:37
How do I market this? Well, I don't know. Try some things out, see what works and then you can build your business plan in your model from there. But it's also just really easy to change. So we talked about when you're starting out like I when I do a business model canvas I literally do a post it's because it's really easy to take a post it crumple it, throw it away, put a different post it and see how that might impact your ideas.
Mariam 19:58
I love that Julie mentioned this. So often when you spend so much time investing in a plan and in an idea, and then you start to realize that maybe that plan you've been so committed to isn't actually the right direction, it can be really, really hard to let that go, I completely hear you. So actually going into that process of developing your business model canvas with the expectation that things will move around and change, or maybe even get thrown out is kind of ideal. Because realizing that you need to shift gears or change directions isn't a loss, it isn't a waste of time, what you're feeling is a sunk cost fallacy, this feeling that you need to stick it through because you've already invested in this idea. But really, the fact that you know enough to realize that you need to change is an incredible piece of knowledge. Through all that time and investment on this idea, you've learned what won't work, which is just as valuable as knowing what will work.
Julie 21:11
It's a lot harder to actually change a product or a marketing channel or something once you've tried to do it. So that idea of just kind of testing it out, look at a business model canvas, that to me is a really helpful pre business plan tools is kind of frame out the idea of what you're thinking and or where your business is at now, maybe it's where your business wants to be in five years, it's not just a tool for startups, it's certainly a tool for everybody. And then from there, you can, you know, find a template or find, you know, what is the final document that I think is going to be useful for me, I always come back to that useful, because if it's just for you, a business model canvas might be what you need right now, having kind of your vision laid out in that way that might be really useful. Or, you know, you're a few years in, maybe you need to start thinking about, you know, what are my financials? What sales goals am I trying to hit? Maybe you need an Excel sheet, and there's some good templates out there for that. Or, as you said earlier, you might be sending those to a funder, a bank, I wish that I could go to the bank with a vision board, and they would give me a bunch of money. That would be I think that they'd be really nice. They might have some more questions. So really, in that case, a business plan is just trying to answer the questions before they ask them
Mariam 22:30
Early in their podcast, Julie mentioned, we can talk about when you might need that more robust, longer, more designed business plan that captures a moment in time. And its instances, like needing to communicate something to a funder, or a potential partner, when that might be something that you need. Think of your organization's story, like a long book, or even a multi-book series, the folks that you are communicating with likely don't need nor have the capacity to know your entire story. So your communication business plan is pulling out those chapters or pages that make sense for them. But your business plan, the one that you build for yourself, that's the full story.
Julie 23:14
So if you talk to the person requesting the business plan, if you have a specific use for it, what do they want to know, they'll they might give you a template, they might just kind of tell you, hey, this is what we generally ask. This is what we expect to see in it. And so then you can think a little bit more, you know, do I need a formal version of this? Either to communicate externally, I also find business plans are really useful to communicate internally. Like we did a business plan for impact consulting last year, not because we needed to share it with anybody else, but because we were hiring. And so we needed a, you know, formal-ish way that we could share with our new hires. Here's what we're trying to achieve together. Here's our financial goals that we're trying to hit together. Here's our customers, here's what we do. Here's our value. So it literally is a Google document, mostly point form, because I'm not a paragraph writer, very visual pictures from some of our past work, links to you know, our website, links to we did a YouTube video a while ago. So I linked to that just any sort of visual creative way, for me our use was how do I orient our new staff? And how do I orient myself as well. So I know what the next few years could look like. How do I take that to our board? You know, so there was some specific audiences in mind. And I created something that worked for us. It didn't need to be formal. No one wanted to read a 23 page business plan about this, but a five, six page overview of our work that had some key financials. Great.
Mariam 24:50
Yeah. I think that's such an important consideration. Is that piece of like, Who is the audience like who is this for? Because truly like, if you're approaching going back to this conversation of a funder or finance or if you're going to a traditional bank, you know, they might have different priorities and areas of interest, then, you know, if you were to go to an impact funder, you know, there's there's different things that they'll care about. So being aware of, you know, what those priorities are like, what is the outcome that you're hoping to have from this business plan? Yeah, helps you kind of develop it and make it again, useful. Okay, so we've talked about kind of those first steps. Now, let's talk a little bit about those areas. Where, as someone who supports people in writing business plans, like where are the areas that folks often gets stuck? And how can they move through that?
Julie 25:45
I can just tell people where they're gonna get stuck and leave it at that?
Mariam 25:47
No, no, no. We want useful things, remember, useful!
Julie 25:53
I mean, financials, that's probably the biggest answer for most people. I've seen sort of full business plans written out and then a little blank section at the bottom that says financials. Or people come in with, it was really easy for me to write out what I'm trying to achieve in the world, and what my product and service idea is, and here's why I think customers will love it. And here's what my question was, I think we could come up with an idea right now and probably write some fun, that would be interesting. Numbers aren't as interesting for a lot of folks. So it often is the thing that people want to do last I, I often encourage doing it, you know, closer to the beginning, if you can go through and you know, even just some really rough numbers, I think going back to, it's going to be wrong, and that's okay, you're not going to have your super accurate financials, especially starting out. A few years in, you'll have past financials, which is a really great place to start to make your future forecasts. But I find that financials piece people get really stuck on just like the the anxiety of like, I'm not really sure what I'm doing there. That's maybe not something I've ever thought of before. Like, most entrepreneurs, that's not their background, their background is in the thing they want to sell or talk about, you know, they're starting a clothing business, because they love fashion, not because they love sales numbers. Yeah, that's rare for a stylist to really love that side of it. So I often kind of go back to making it meaningful for you. And if it's not useful to start with, like an Excel sheet, because I think a lot of people pull up a template kind of look at and get a little scared,
Mariam 27:35
Yeah, like the cash flow projections or whatever.
Julie 27:37
Yeah, what does that even mean? Yeah. But trying to take it back to what are some numbers that you already know, or can make a guess about? So, you know, if you're selling a product at festivals and markets, for example, and you've had this thought of I have this product, I'm gonna sell it at these markets over the summer. You know, there's a social impact and involvement of some sort. Not very creative in this moment. But how do I figure out how much money I'm going to make on that? We'll just go back to what are some things you already know? Okay, well, how many markets are there over the summer? And realistically, how many do I want to do? How many weekends? Do I have free for this? How many do I want to do? How much product can I actually make in my spare time? So giving yourself a sense of okay, well, as an artist, I know it takes me four hours to make these these jewelry products. And I know how many I can make most people who are starting out making something they'll have a sense of how much time it takes them. And those are numbers. I think we don't think of those as financials. It's financial sounds different than numbers, but it's just numbers. So anything you already have around your time, you know, how much does it cost you to buy what you need to make it? That's your costs? You know, how many do you think you could sell at a market? Well, it starts to get more complicated. If you're just starting out, you might not know that you can make a guess. Try to go back and test that. Do you have a friend who did that market last year that you can talk to them about? You know, how many of these do you think you sold at your market? It's gonna be guesswork in the early stages. Next year, you're gonna have, you know, last year's numbers to work from, so it always gets easier. But going back to like meaningful numbers, and that might mean writing it out in a paragraph. I've done that with folks where instead of just putting the number down, it's actually easier for them to write out a paragraph that says, describing it rather than you know, okay. 10 markets seven, and it looks like you're doing math, whereas you read a paragraph that says, I'm going to go to seven markets this summer. I think I could sell this like the numbers start to mean something more. So I often if I find someone who's struggling with that number side, just try to like just put put the Excel sheet away and just have a conversation about your business was someone have them ask you some questions about the numbers, you're probably going to have more answers than what you think.
Mariam 29:53
Yeah. I remember this being such a turning point for some folks. I was working with the eight The idea of needing to know their numbers was so daunting, but being able to talk it out almost like a word problem, then go back and start to plug in the numbers that, you know, even if they are just educated guesses can be so handy. I highly recommend it if you're struggling with understanding what your costs might be. Yeah, and, and that's where a coach or you know, someone comes in handy to, like, ask those types of questions you can, who knows how to ask those sort of like meaningful questions. And, you know, going further, if you are at a place where you start to want to put together some like numbers and projections, but you're really hung up on like, I'm just guessing, like, that's really okay. And something that I'll often suggest is like, do kind of a three case scenario, like, you know, you're building these numbers based off of what you think, you know, cool. That's like your expected number. And then you have your worst case scenario. And that worst case scenario can be like, it'll be individual for everyone. But really thinking about, you know, these are the lowest that numbers can be, while still making sense to continue to do this. And then that's a good number to just be aware of, because it's based on you know, your personal circumstances, the income that you need to be generating from this, all of those things. There is something called a minimum viable income. And I really like this tool to help you understand how much money you need to make in order to support your needs and values. Just as a person living in this wild world, it's really important to note that your MBI is not the absolute bare minimum you need to survive. It's a calculation that includes space for joy and creativity and rest. Say, for example, your goal is to have your social enterprise be your full time job, and support all of your financial needs. By understanding your cost of living, rent, groceries, going out with friends, buying from local businesses, whatever it might be, you can use that to understand how much income you need in order to support those needs. That's what ends up being your minimum viable income. And then you have your best case scenario where you're, like, completely blown out of the water of like, wow, it did not expect to sell this much, you know, in this period of time, I'm flying high. And then you have rather than, you know, a set projection, you have a spectrum, and then you can, you know, really see, you know, as you start to go through these markets, in this hypothetical scenario, you can see like, Okay, I'm, I'm less than where I thought I was, but I'm not at my worst case scenario, or like, Oh, I am beyond what I thought was like my best case scenario. What do I need to learn about those? Like, what do I need to know, in order to continue this trajectory? And I find that that can be like a really, really helpful way to approach those big scary numbers.
Julie 32:56
Yeah, definitely scenarios and scenarios based on you know, what's going to make the biggest difference? And what's most likely to change? So you can kind of, even if you make a list of okay, what are the things that, you know, would really mess me up? If they changed, and make a list of the things that are, you know, maybe most likely to change? But there's a couple things that are on that list. Those are things to really keep an eye on?
Mariam 33:26
Yeah, yeah. Like, if you're building a space, there's going to be some delays, there's going to be some numbers, and those things can be pricey. So yeah, just like being aware of what are what are the things that you're spending money on? Cool. Thank you. Um, okay. And, you know, as we start to think about, like, building out that business plan, you know, they have their ideas, they have their canvas started. What are some areas where you find that people aren't asking questions, but you think would be useful to ask questions?
Julie 34:03
That's a really good question. So that one. Um, I think asking, like, does my customer want this for the same reason I think they want this? Like, in the early stages, it's figuring out, I think this is a great idea. Yeah, definitely. You probably talk to your friends and family, they probably also told you, it was a really good idea.
Mariam 34:30
They also probably care about you, they care
Julie 34:31
They care about you, they want you to succeed. Sofinding that person who thinks, oh, maybe that's not a good idea. And just ask them a ton of questions, because you're gonna get such good feedback from the person who is critical of you, you know, take it all with a grain of salt, take all advice with a grain of salt. But getting a sense of, you know, what are some of the things that actually I'm getting, like really good critique and criticism and that can be really hard.
Mariam 34:58
I always suggest that when you're looking to do market research or validate your assumptions, it's best to get feedback from outside your friends and family, which can feel so uncomfortable. I hear ya, as a social enterprise when you focus on the folks who are experiencing the problem or challenge that you're trying to solve, you end up understanding so much more about what the best approach is to that solution. Because really, that person that you're talking to is most interested in that same goal of finding a solution. If you ask your friends or your partner or someone who's invested in your happiness, they will likely have a bias that will skew the information that you're trying to gather. So where do you find those people to talk to, if you already have an online community of sorts, that's a great place to start, or community Facebook groups, social media, in general, community centers, or even a professional association, depending on the type of work that you do. This is all part of the creative process that comes with building your social enterprise.
Julie 36:03
It's really helpful to understand who might really like your idea, and be your future customer. And also, maybe who isn't your future customer, doesn't mean you need to change your whole idea. But maybe it gives you a sense of where you focus your marketing, or who your customers are. And the people who do really like your idea, dive a little deeper into why. I think often, you know, we get really excited that people are, you know, buying our stuff and get love that. But we don't really talk to our customers as much about like, what is it that you really like about this? Or what brought you in? How did you hear about us? Some of those questions that that little bit of data is gonna really help you understand how you can target your sales pitch, you might be really surprised by why someone bought your product, you might think everyone's gonna love the color, and nobody cares about the color. And maybe that color costs you a lot more money, and you think it's worth it because you think that's what everyone loves. Because you love the color. And so getting to know really what is it that my customers are valuing in the work that I'm doing?
Mariam 37:05
Okay, quick story. One of my dear pals, Sarah runs a gluten free bake shop with her mom called Helm Baked. And Oh, baby, those snacks are beyond delicious. But that is besides the point. But I have always been so fascinated by is how Sarah manages to do customer research and inquiry in such a unique and engaging way. Sarah has a design background. And so the branding and aesthetics of Helm Baked are so onpoint and she uses that alongside her very fun personality. To post these Instagram questions and polls to engage their customers. It will be these silly questions like is pie a controversial choice for Christmas dinner? And the choices will be yes, absolutely fruitcake all the way. Or heck no, give me pie all day every day. Or it will be things like: you're sitting lakeside on a warm summer's evening, are you snacking on a blueberry lemon loaf or a gluten-free linzer cookie. And these questions are so fun and playful. And it feels like you're participating in this sweet game. But in reality, this information is so useful for Sarah and Sue to understand what their customers are looking for, and what they're interested in buying. They can see how many people respond to those polls, they can see what gets minimal engagement versus people passionately responding. And they use that knowledge. So all of this is to say that customer research doesn't have to be formal surveys or interviews, they can be for sure. And also feel free to get creative and lean into other ways. You're already connecting with your audience and see how you can learn from them. Yeah, that is a very good point. Okay, so as we're wrapping up our time together, can you share with the folks at home where they can learn more about Impact Consulting the work that you're doing? If they want to reach out to you? How can they find you?
Julie 39:00
Yeah, absolutely. Well, please do reach out. I love these types of conversations. I love hearing from people who are early stage to late stage thinking about their social enterprise growing their social enterprise. We work at Pillar with individuals, we work with nonprofits, we work with, you know, public institutions that are thinking about revenue generation differently. So if you're not sure, if you should reach out, please do, you'll likely get in touch with either Mariam or myself. So if you're, you know, unsure, and you're just trying to navigate Pillar services on our website, pillarnonprofit.ca/social enterprise. There's a forum that you can fill out just telling us a little bit about what support you're looking for what you're doing, and that goes to both of us. So then we can have a conversation and say, you know, how can we support this person the best we'll give you a call or an email back we'll have a conversation, I'd say as well in terms of our services. So Pillar primarily operates sort of London SouthWestern Ontario, but Impact Consulting, our social enterprise actually does work across Ontario and across Canada. So if you are sort of a little further away from London and you're looking for some services, please reach out again, if I'm not the right fit, or we're not the right fit to support you. We know a lot of folks in all those areas as well, and we're happy to connect you to a resource that would be useful.
Mariam 39:07
Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much, Julie.
Julie 39:35
No problem this was wonderful.
Mariam 39:57
Thank you for joining me and yeah, it's always a blast to chat with you. Okay. So, I have one more question. It's one that we like to ask everyone. Before we sign off. Can you share one thing that brings you joy, it can be absolutely anything, just the first thing that pops into your mind.
Julie 40:42
Figure skating. I'm a competitive figure skater. And I step out and my blades hit that ice and nothing else matters.
Mariam 40:52
I love that. Thank you once again to Julie Forrester, Manager of Impact Consulting here at Pillar Nonprofit Network. I hope this has been informative time to learn a little bit more about business plans and how you can start to make those first steps in creating your own. Like we said, we are both always thrilled to chat and connect with folks about you know, your social purpose organization. So you can head on over to pillar nonprofit.ca/social enterprise to either fill out that social enterprise intake form that Julie mentioned, or directly to pillarnonprofit.ca/impact. To find out a little bit more about the impact consulting organization. Thank you once again for joining us on Pollinating Purpose. I am your host, your guide, your business bud, Mariam Waliji, as well as the Social Enterprise Program Manager and Coach here at Pillar. I am so thrilled that you're here. Thank you for joining us and coming along for this ride.